Mods / Better Than Boats
- Tags:
- Author:
- examanon
- Side:
- Both
- Created:
- Sep 17th at 8:23 AM
- Last modified:
- 4 days ago
- Downloads:
- 76
-
Recommended download (for Vintage Story 1.22.7):
betterthanboats_3.4.15.zip 1-click install
What is Better Than Boats?
Better Than Boats is a progression mod. While in vanilla Vintage Story you can progress up to copper in a day and a half and never again struggle, BTB aims to gate meaningful progression milestones behind actually challenging the player. If you know about Better Than Wolves, well, this is the same deal. Nothing arbitrary is added that the base game doesn't have, no thirst bar or diseases, no [have this in your inventory or you die] mechanics, it's only made harder while not being tedious - for instance new mob behaviors, balanced combat, reworked mining, etc.
At any given time you have a set of needs to be met, first an actual obstacle, but what later ages will trivialize and present you with new challenges. These can be, but are not limtied to: scarcity of resources, environmental hazards, a test of your time management skills, combat, boss fights, etc. Progression is divided into Eras, and Eras are divided into Ages. Each have their own unique goals and a gate to progress to the next age.
Do NOT add this mod to existing worlds! It tweaks a lot of stuff and you WILL lose some items!
This mod is intended to be played competitively - playing with other mods installed is generally not in the competitive spirit.
Ages of progression
The best experience is to go into the mod blindly, so you can develop your own strategies based on what works - and doesn't work - for you. Here is a mostly spoiler free list of objectives to help you get started:
Era of Scarcity
Age of Survival
At the start, your biggest challenge is resource management. You must create and maintain your set of important tools, as well as shield yourself from the elements, darkness, starvation, and monsters. Your ultimate goal in this age to progress up to copper tools - believe me, it will be much harder than in the base game.
For comparison, during my longest test run where I knew exactly what I was doing, I...
- ...filled my first crock at around 4 hours
- ...made my first pickaxe at around 4.5 hours
- ...hunted my first bear at around 6 hours
- ...got my first piece of bismuth at 9 hours
- ...managed a decent sized inventory at 10 hours
- ...made a set of bronze tools at 18 hours
- ...made my first lantern at 25 hours
- ...set up a helve hammer at 36 hours
- ...made a tempered iron spear at 42 hours (and then died with it)
Age of Copper
With your newly acquired copper and with your firewood/charcoal get some pit kilns going, get more food, improve your base.
Once you have your pickaxe (and optimally a hammer), you are now ready for top strata caving for more copper. Your biggest hazard is the darkness, so learn to combat it. Mobs too, though.
At this point you can also hunt animals, and eventually make leather armor and better weapons. Since you can now make a proper cellar, food should no longer be a big problem. This is the end of the Era of Scarcity!
Era of the Deep
You will probably spend the most time in this Era, and you'll probably also die the most in this Era. Your goal is to progress through all three rock stratas - each with new challenges - until you can get up to iron. Resources aren't as scarce now, but you still must maintain your base and living to supply your cave runs. Plural.
Age of Bronze
On around day 7 to 10 if you have a decent supply of food and torches, or optionally have panned for a candle / made a lantern, you can now go middle strata caving - shivers spawn at this depth.
Get enough zinc and bismuth for the anvil and some better tools, and ready yourself for bottom strata caving for iron, and more importantly to find mineshafts - bowtorns and locusts spawn at this depth.
Besides getting iron, in mineshafts you will find locust nests, your only source of twine, and thus allowing you to go into automation.
Age of Automation
With the twine from the locust nests, you can now start up automation. In this age you will pretty much finish setting up your base, to trivialize mosts manual tasks so you can focus on what's ahead: combat.
The final gate of this age/era before you can go into iron and steel is this: The Bellows now needs mechanical power, and a drop from the Bell (now a miniboss). Put together the Temporal Bell Pieces that the locust nests dropped, and summon the Bell. This is a tough fight, so be prepared.
Be warned, that upon defeating the Bell your world is going into Hard mode. For now, this means that mobs can now spawn with different status effects / buffs, such as increased damage, draining sanity on hit, applying gloom on hit, etc.
Era of Discovery
The endgame.
Age of Exploration
Get enough iron, meteoric iron, and optionally steel and do the endgame dungeons, and travel to the frontier outside the 5000 block radius to find traders and farmable crops.
You get the Resonance Archives Map from the Bell miniboss, and must use it to make Targeted Temporal Powder to find the actual dungeon. The same is true for all other locations.
After beating the Eidolon you can set out to the frontier to cure Rusted Traders, and stack up on gear for the longer journeys ahead.
Age of Solace
You just won the game! Congratulations, the world is your oyster now!
Features
If you don't mind spoilers or need a better understanding of game mechanics, read ahead:
Worldgen
- Sea level is higher, so there are more caves (temporal stability and global temperature/precipitation compensated for it)
- Minecraft beta 1.8 inspired cave generation, including ravines and mineshafts (with surface markers)
- Meteoric iron no longer found on the surface, instead spawns at the bottom of strata 3 as ore chunks (generally at Minecraft beta 1.7.3 diamond density, and always found in caves - no need to strip mine)
- BTW-style rock stratas, each correspond to a new challenge
- Block instability enforced - vertical yes, sideways no
- No traders, no crops, no loot vessels near spawn
- Traders spawn as Rusted Traders, hostile - must be cured using Fine Temporal Powder
- 5000 block respawn radius is enforced, new Compass item points to world spawn
Combat
- Less floaty, non-laggy combat
- Removed shields, Falx can now block
- Adjusted hitboxes for all mobs
- Better pathfinding for all mobs, and they pursue more ruthlessly
- Player has the ability to critically hit enemies while jumping and sprinting
- Mob health, damage, and knockback adjusted (lowered) to balance new AI tasks
- Nearby drifters and shivers assign themselves into hunting packs, adopting role-based AI tasks
- Drifters now vary meele, ranged, and hit-and-run tasks
- Drifters now try to encircle the player and cut off escape routes
- Shivers now vary meele and heckler tasks
- Shivers now try to flank the player
- Blatantly kiting a hunting pack for a prolonged time enrages it
- Crawling drifters lunge at the player
- Drifters can now spawn holding weapons/tools and armor, you may get their held items if you can kill them - based on the held item the drifter enjoys increased range, damage, and damage reduction
- Drifters dig through soil blocks while pathing to the player
- Shivers dig through soil AND wooden blocks while pathing to the player
- Bowtorns try to flee to range, have a limited number of shots, then rush meele
- Getting meele hit by a Tainted mob applies food poisoning
- Getting meele hit by a Corrupt mob applues poisoning
- Getting meele hit by a Nightmare mob spawns spiderwebs around the player (once per mob)
- Locusts hang from the ceiling to ambush the player
- Locusts try to break torches when not attacking the player
- Sawblades try to break torches, lanterns, and ladders when not attacking the player
- No natural Bell spawns
- Locust nests drop Bell summon item pieces, 3 needed for summon (can only be done on the surface)
- Bell tries to flee to range and climb height when not alarming
- Bell regenerates life unless continuously attacked
- Bell can destroy blocks throughout the fight
- Staying too close to the Bell causes Gloom
- Bells drop Large Gear, a new item required for the Bellows
- Rusty Gears only drop from Tainted and harder mobs
- World entesr hardmode on defeating the Bell - mobs may now spawn with buffs (dmg, speed, guard, sanity drain on hit, gloom on hit)
- Pre-hardmode mob tiers only up to Tainted can spawn
- In hardmode mob tiers up to Nightmare can spawn
- Mobs drop a new item: Temporal Powder, used in metalcasting and endgame content - dropped from mobs, or from putting Temporal Gears / Temporal Bell Pieces into a quern
General gameplay, environmental hazards
- Several non-gravity blocks have been removed or moved later in progression
- Hunger/health loss impairs damage and movement
- Raw meat edible, 30% chance to apply food poisoning
- Torches cannot be reset, they fade out over time and don't last as long
- BTW-style Gloom in caves, during new moons, and especially rainy nights - environmental hazards are now as dangerous as mobs
- No flax from mobs
- No map or coords, and no calendar - pending to be added back as Jonas items
- No placing blocks while airborne
- No walking while crafting
- Buckets no longer transport source blocks
- Copper+ tools have secondary uses to trivialize earlier tasks, eg.: copper axe allows firewood into stick
- Flint tools now require binding, made from cattail through the crude barrel soaking process
- Simplified fishing to supplement early food scarcity, with two pole variants (bone or copper)
- Storage vessels now for food items only
- Fish trap for "automated" food gathering (post-twine, pre-iron)
- More in-depth firepit mechanics to incentivize settling down vs an immediate pilgrimage to 5k blocks out
- Fire spread is more dangerous
- Quench rework
- When quenching fails, instead of getting destoryed the item becomes "Bent" that may be fixed (resetting the item but with a durability penalty) with a hammer and chisel
- Quenching / tempering never changes durability of the item
- Quenching raises damage sharply: 12% -> 25% -> 40% -> 60%
- Quenching shatter chances raised accordingly
- Temporal storms now generally happen after gloom nights, with lowered intensity
- Endgame dungeons / locations can now be found using Targeted Temporal Powder
- The Glider is easier to use, to traverse terrain
- Rain is scary
- Lava is scary
- Various minor tweaks to make the game harder, but not a chore
- Playing in Hardcore indicated with a health bar decoration overlay
Footnotes
AI disclaimer
Was AI used during development of this mod? Yes and no. I have been working as a full stack dev for close to a decade now, including projects such as a power plant management system, so I know how to use a computer. That said, C# is definitely not my favorite language or one I'm overly familar with, so I used Anthropic models through Claude Code CLI to implement a lot of stuff I wouldn't know where to even begin; with addition of rtk, serena, caveman, and ponytail, besides my own configuration. Performance and security had continuously been maintained and rigorously tested. If something looks bad or works bad, that's due to my bad judgment and not to "vibe coding".
Stable Beta
At its third published release, the mod is in its balanced stable beta phase. There are still some leftover placeholders and pending balance changes, however for these I'll need feedback. In over 40+ hours spent in a testing run I hadn't encountered any issues, crashes or the likes, so the mod should be stable and not harm your computer. Do let me know your thoughts, though!
Planned features
- Revamp the Eidolon fight
- Datetime and geolocation mechanics to be re-added as Jonas gadgets
Staged changes (unpublished, coming in the next update)
- Achievments to guide the player through the ages of progression (hotkey: "K")
- Main questline for critical milestones
- Sidequests for QoL items
- Feats to really challenge the player
- New iron age item: Cauldron
- Allows large-scale batch food processing and need little fuel
- Adds the ability to brew potions: horsetail + water -> healing potion; temporal powder + water -> sanity potio
- Potions can be enhanced by brewing them an additional time with Meteoric Iron Powder (that you can make now via quern) to get healing+regen and sanity+strength
- Re-enabled some recipes but only for later in progression
- Mudbrick and variants now need an iron shovel or better to craft, but are immune to drifter block breaking
- Packed/arid/rammed dirt now need an iron shovel or better to craft
- Path blocks now need an iron shovel or better to craft
- All roof variants now require an iron saw or better to craft
- Chiseling rework
- Resin + water + chisel now makes a new item: Resin Balm
- Resin Balm now must be used to make blocks chiselable
- Leatherworking rework
- Strong Tannin now requires Compost
- Wolves, Bears, and Hyenas periodically defecate after feeding on a carcass, producing Dung piles
- Dung blocks broken with a shovel give Compost
- Weak Tannin now produces Leather
- Strong Tannin now produces Tanned Leather
- Tanned Leather required in higher tier armor recipes
- Tanned Leather required to make backpacks
- Geolocation rework
- A book + knife can be crafted into parchment
- Parchment + charcoal can be crafted into a new item: Crude Map; shows rudimentary, symbolic representation for up to a 1024x1024 area when in the inventory
- Jonas Sundial and Jonas Pocketwatch now craftable for timekeeping
- Agressive animals adjustments
- Wolves, Bears, and Hyenas now hunt more mobs, and more agressively
- Wolves and Hyenas combat now less jank
- Damaged Wolves and Hyenas may disengage to seek out mates to help in combat
- Defeating the Eidolon boss further increases the difficulty, putting the world into Nightmare mode (needs testing)
- Nightmare mode allows all mob tiers to spawn
- Nightmare mode Deep Drifters have a low chance to spawn invisible, emitting a white glow (needs testing)
- Nightmare mode Shivers have a low chance to spawn as being perpetually on fire and inflict burn on the player (needs testing)
- Nightmare mode Bowtorns shoot in volleysof three (needs testing)
- Meteoric Iron rework (needs testing)
- Meteoric Iron ores can be processed in the quern to get Meteoric Iron Powder
- Meteoric Iron ingots can be processed in the quern to get Meteoric Iron Powder at a high rate
- Meteoric Iron tools had been removed from the game
- Meteoric Iron Falx head, Spear head, Plates, Scales, and Chains must be re-crafted with the equivalent Iron item before they are useable (but give increased yields)
- Tools crafted with a hammer and chisel now give back their toolheads at the exact same durability (iron tool heads cannot be quenced again)
- Meteoric Iron items have +30% durability compared to vanilla
- Misc
- Iron pickaxe or better always give crystallized ore chunks
- Papyrus allowed as a cattails alternative in mod recipes
- Added new item: "Targeted Temporal Powder (Myself)" as an alternative to the Compass, that leads to last known death position
- Ores are now harder to break
- Fixed Gloom nights actually going dark
- Better Firepit fire-hazard box (needs testing)
- More seamless Copper Pickaxe ore breaking (needs testing)
- Starting in hardmode drifters with Bronze items/armor are more likely to spawn, and Tainted and higher tiers have a low chance to spawn wearing Iron Chainmail - which they can drop (needs testing)
- TBD
| Mod Version | Mod Identifier | For Game version | Downloads | Released | Changelog | Download | 1-click mod install* |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3.4.15 | betterthanboats | 15 | 4 days ago | betterthanboats_3.4.15.zip | 1-click install | ||
|
Stable Beta
| |||||||
| 2.25.0 | betterthanboats | 26 | Sep 23rd at 9:56 AM | betterthanboats_2.25.0.zip | 1-click install | ||
| |||||||
| 2.0.1 | betterthanboats | 35 | Sep 17th at 9:05 AM | betterthanboats_2.0.1.zip | 1-click install | ||
|
Initial beta release | |||||||









Is there a starting climate that the player has to pick?
I wanted to check it out in the hot climate but i don't see papyrus as an alternative to cattails in the binding recipe, which kinda makes it impossible to make a knife.
You shouldn't have to config anything by hand, the mod adjusts the temperature and precipitation automatically to account for the raised sea level. Although it's currently only balanced for the standard temperate climate.
Ok, i just wanted to know if a playthrough in a hotter climate was possible. I guess not. bummer :(
I'll add it in the next update.
Oh cool, an update! I'll start a new world since it mentions some worldgen tweaks. Some thoughts I had while playing 2.25. Not sure if you've done anything about them or have any plans to, but I didn't see anything in the changelog. None of these are huge problems, but might be something to look at fiddling with down the line.
On the subject of mudbricks, though, is it possible to make different materials of a given type have greater durability? I haven't done much testing, but it's considerably more effort to produce mudbricks than soil blocks, yet if they're broken just as quickly by drifters, what's the point beyond cosmetics? If it's possible to make some materials within the same resource type (soil, ceramic, stone, etc) have different levels of durability, that would give mudbricks a firm place as a "late stone age" material to reinforce your base with and a way to use up excess dry grass (and thatch maybe!)
It would be nice to have packed dirt and stone paths for both cosmetic purposes and practical purposes. Packed dirt is useful for fireproofing an area around an open flame, for example. Maybe they could be re-added as things produced via helve hammers or other mechanical devices?
Anyway, thanks for all your hard work on this. It's really become my favorite way to play VS.
>It's really become my favorite way to play VS.
I'm amazed but very happy to hear that, and honestly, it's kinda the same for me. BTW MEA is in my opinion the way to Minecraft too.
Most of the things you mention here are things more on the streamlining side than balancing, I think, so I haven't given them much thought yet. Some spawns will always be more viable than others, that's something I have little control over since you could very well just spawn in a forest and die to wolves immediately. BTB is currently only balanced for the most common spawns I have encountered, and bamboo is a rarity in these cases. I'm fine leaving it as an option if the player tweaks the worldgen options to get a crutch, or as a rare treat.
Tule right now exists to make gathering cattails take a little bit more time since you have to look at what you're doing and they can block your vision, but eventually I do want to re-add some recipes to reintroduce roofing blocks. Maybe with an iron saw or better. Same goes for mudbricks, they're only cosmetic, so it's possible I'll eventually move them way later in progression but let them be drifter-proof. Bony Soil though was an intentional decision - you can use your precious blocks in building, but then not only are you depriving yourself of useful material like candles, spear heads, and chains, but drifters can break them too.
Crafting dirt piles into medium fertility soil is just to make the game less tedious. By the time it'll matter it'd just draw the game out for no reason. Packed dirt and paths are still a no-go, though then again, maybe with an iron shovel or better.
I'll see to some of these in the next patch. Until then, a sneak peek as a thank you for all the feedback!
Edit: Put most of these changes into the next update, since they're easy fixes.
That changelog looks wild. Props
It should spice up the midgame alright, or so I hope
<3 <3 <3
O M G ! Better than wolves the only one, the best game of the the world ! Love you !
I was always surprised there was no BTW mod for VS, since VS incorporates a number of ideas that were (probably?) first seen in BTW. Will definitely need handbook entries to explain how to do everything. For example, tools require binding, which says you soak 3 reeds (or similar) in water for 20 hours - but how do you do that when you can't make containers until well after stone tools? Does it mean use ground storage in a water block? Is the player expected to go dig up BTW documentation and parse the two together?
Currently working through a vanilla+ modlist but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this one. Off the top of my head, changing poultices to heal over 3-5 mins (or longer?) instead of rather quickly might be a good change, as well as making applying poultices require you to stand still or even sit. In vanilla it's fairly easy to kite enemies while healing yourself. This would also make "potions" more of a noticeable progression step, allowing you to stuff a potion into your helmet on the move (as well as presumably healing more rapidly?)
Probably add hooks for Hydrate or Diedrate. It's a fairly basic mod but would be able to play well with the BTW concept. Could always add stuff to make it stricter.
Maybe have Drifters and Shivers only destroy blocks during storms, especially since you're planning on having weak storms pop up more frequently. There's a mod floating around out there, I forget its name, that does allow Drifters to open doors unless you use a padlock to lock them. That might be a nice compromise.
The Conquest team have their own stone age expansion mod that I'm a fan of, although it's a year out of date at this point and no telling if they're still actively modding or not. Incorporates cordage and pitch (powdered charcoal obtainable from cold and dead firepits and combined with resin to create pitch) to make even basic stone tools. Might consider a concept like that for this one, too, as like with BTW in that other block game, it's weird how we just get a stick and a piece of rock and a fairly modern-looking tool magically appears. Primitive humans used simple hand tools (just sharpened rocks) for a while, and it wasn't until close to the neolithic period that we started seeing more sophisticated tools.
Anyway, excited to see this happening!
Thank you for the suggestions! Most of these I had also thought about during development, so let's take it from the top:
>handbook entries / guides
The new blocks and recipes are of course in the handbook. The player will probably try to make a knife or other tool, see that it's not working, and check the recipe to find that they need a new item: binding. This is basically the BTW string subtitute. To make binding you must soak cattails in a barrel, which is the only misleading part because you actually need a "Crude Barrel" I just couldn't find out which translation file to patch, but if the player searches for "Barrel" they'll find it anyway.
>healing
I did consider several changes to poultices, to even completely removing them from the game. But from testing they actually seem fairly balanced as they are, because you'll almost always want to wear some sort of armor and the vanilla game logic already penalizes that. If you're in a position to remove your armor to heal properly, that's a nice "immersive" way of doing it.
Potions will overall take the same role as they do in BTW, making past encounters trivial (if you keep your guard up), while allowing bossfights to happen at all.
Edit: Now I'm considering making a "Crude Poultice" at first that the player can make with just picking up horsetail and cattails, making it half-or-so good as the current basic poultice, and then making the normal poultice gated behidn the quern by grinding the horsetail. It would incentivize making a copper anvil fast, because right now immediately beelining for the bronze anvil seems like an easier prospect.
>kiting
I have made some AI enhancements to make that less likely, but even then, meeting a drifter and running away is a perfectly fine strategy. It's about saving your weapon's durability, or not risking getting damaged that would then eat into your food economy. Not to mention, every drifter you spend time kiting is moew chances for others to spawn, and for the day to progress and you'll loose precious daytime.
>make it stricter
I am looking for ways to challenge the player, but not arbitrarily. The hunger bar already gives plenty to work with, and I want systems to remain as simple as they can so the player can either intuit how they work or rapidly adapt to them otherwise. For example: if you hunger bar is near full, you're incentivized to keep it near full, which is mostly a time- and inventory management task; once your hunger bar is below 50% and you become Peckish, it's a crisis event, and especially if you're in combat that is a very imminent challenge; and once it's below that, it's do or die. No need to implement another bar on top of it. Realism isn't the point anyway.
>block breaking
This is to make mining trips more dangerous, as otherwise you can just block off other cave segments and be safe with your torches. Dirt is merely a temporal solution, and while at first wood is a good compromise, on deeper levels it isn't either. It forces the player to adapt to their environment. Also thisway you can't just make a dirt hut on day 1 and be safe indefinitely.
>pitch and stuff
There is already binding, and I don't want the player to have to run around looking for resin or other resources. I want everything to be the least time waste-y, to which the 20 hour soaking process might be contradictory, but it forces the player to go get food and make shelter, and to get a reading of the land around them. This is a huge reason why the mod is so combat oriented. Why challenge the player with not starving over the course of a week or month, when there can just be a skill-check against drifters? It needs the player to be fed anyway.
My understanding is that the healing penalty doesn't affect healing received, but just the time it takes to apply a poultice. So unless enemies are dramatically faster than the player, it's still just a mild inconvenience. I think you can even create macros to take your armor off and put it back on with a single keypress.
I think allowing berries and mushrooms to respawn would be okay, maybe at reduced rates (once a season?) if vanilla is too fast, but I do miss the old BTW function of animals dying out in your area after a few nights and needing to nomad up some more. It'll be fun to get that back again, although VS animals are a lot better at fleeing and defending themselves than MC ones.
Definitely need some more tutorials in the handbook. Took me a while to find crude bowls.
The removal of the firepit UI is nice for taking away precise information from the player but it's also incredibly easy to feed it wooden stuff... like your tools... by accident. Maybe change the "add fuel" button combination to sneak+RM?
Cobblestone might be a little OP. Finding clay is probably a day 1 activity and if you're diligent about picking up rocks, you can get quite a bit of it. Then again, soil is vertically unstable and the recipes for packed dirt and rammed earth are disabled, and wattle fencing requires copper, so maybe that's an intended thing.
Can confirm the mod appears to play nice with the following:
Auto Walk Extended 1.5.2
Blood Trail 1.2.7
Config Lib 1.13.2
Flee Exhaustion 1.2.0
Footsteps 1.2.8
Knapster 4.1.0
Open Hand 1.0.6
Storage Tweaks 1.4.1-rc3
VS ImGui 1.2.7
No conflicts noticed with any of those mods and they all appear to work properly. I previously used Accessibility Tweaks for autorun and stepup functionality, and it worked fine, but after it caused some unexpected crashes in my V+ modlist, I'm trying other options. Auto Walk Extended also includes a "mouse lock" option, so I'm trying that in place of the usual Click Toggle mod.
Stepup might feel like a cheat, given that BTW wants to force the player to jump everywhere and then punish them for it, but I always felt that the demand to make a billion dirt slabs was a huge drain on the player's time and quite frankly very boring. Terrain Slabs could be an alternative, but I believe that messes with worldgen and I think it also demands Place on Slab as a dependency. I've intentionally left all worldgen type mods out, as well as anything but the simplest QoL type mods. Blood Trail, Footsteps, and Flee Exhaustion I left in as an experiment. I think they fit the BTW design quite well, much as they make vanilla VS feel better too.
That's very useful info, thanks!
Your understanding is correct, at least as far as my own understanding: you must spend an increasing amount of time applying the heal instead of being engaged in combat. On the surface that's rather easy, but in a cave not so much. Plus the more health you have, the less it realively heals you.
Hmm, cobble blocks may eventually be gated to after a hammer, then again, diligence on the player's behalf should be encouraged. It's not that hard to find some ruins anyway.
Jumping right now doesn't drain more satiety than it does in vanilla, though there are dirt slabs if you want to have the classic BTW experience.
As for mods, I don't plan on adding outright compatibility with any. Firstly, because balancing a mod like this around just vanilla content is already a challenge; but secondly, because mods like these are meant to be played competitively, and that can only ever be done fairly if there's no "external tools" used.
Edit: Oh, and as for berries and stuff, right now they are allowed to respawn. Realistically I expect the player to go through most content before winter anyway, so it's just there to help keep up nutrient levels. If the player over-gathers and lets their stuff to rot, well, that's on them.
One thing I'm noticing: on death it says I have 1 lives left, but clicking respawn puts in a chat message that says "Cannot revive! All lives used up." Players have infinite lives using the default Wilderness Survival settings and I'm not messing with that at all.
Working as expected :^)
Jokes aside, while the mod hardcodes some worldgen properties, including that the player is forced into playing hardcore, it saying that one life is remaining just a low priority bug.
Yeah, but how do I actually respawn? It won't even let me enter chat commands.
I was expecting to play this mod, but locking the experience in hardcore is too much (BTW is not intended to be played permadeath). Should I have any hope of permadeath be optional, and hardcore respawn (that's already in Vintage Story) be enabled into a certain fair radius so players can revive but just don't harakiri and respawn outside of "abandonment" radius, or should I just "f- it, we balls"?
Yeah Hardcore is a very bizarre decision considering that BTW was entirely built around what is now default Wilderness Survival behavior in VS: on death you respawn in a random location within 5000 blocks of spawn. A huge element of the BTW mod was advancing far enough along that you could access gold and use a compass to return to spawn and from there build out pathways and guidelines to wherever you're based so that from that point on, deaths are just an annoying inconvenience rather than effectively resetting your progress.
It honestly breaks the entire concept to have forced hardcore. Such an incredibly weird decision to make.
grinning_serpent VoideonLord I'll push a new update hopefully by the end of the week to address this. I admit, I'm much more involved with recent BTW sensibilities that involve stuff like MEA or Nightmare Mode, where hardcore is pretty much the standard. However, there's no reason not to make this a player choice even if I don't personally agree with it.
The new update will flesh out the "frontier" 5k blocks out more, or else the player could just keep respawning until they find crops and traders. I won't spoil everything, but this will involve things like the MC/BTW zombie villager curing, except it'll be Rusted Traders, and making this an actual part of the progression between the Resonance Archive and Desolation fights. I'll also add the Compass, though it'll be similarly hard to obtain as the BTW counterpart, requiring a little bit of bottom strata caving.
The update will include some other touching up on the late-bronze / early-iron era mob encounters and worldgen.
Sounds good. My mentality is that if it's something that's already covered by the available sliders/options, just let it be something players decide for themselves. Maybe put recommendations for settings in the mod description so that they know what it's designed and balanced for, but otherwise just let it be.
The only thing I think the mod really needs, other than the continued process of fleshing out and deepening things over time, is updated handbook pages. Especially the guide pages. I'll keep running into things that don't work as vanilla does and then sometimes you can figure it out (like there are crude bowls you can make to fill up the barrels with) but other things are less certain. I'm assuming I need coal or charcoal to finish filling those pit kilns, but it would be nice to be able to look at a handbook guide and be sure.
Letting players discover things for themselves is important, of course. But the idea behind something like the handbook is it's better than them needing to go off and explore a wiki or try to get answers from a web search (which is far less useful than it used to be thanks to Discord siloing so much information and LLMs hallucinating nonsense), where they're way more likely to get spoiled on something accidentally.
Maybe a "starting guide" could give general directions on things they ought to be looking for and thinking about, and then they can consult detailed guides afterwards if they're still stuck? Either way, I played a world for a few days and it was as fun as I remember BTW being. I'm glad we're finally getting the "BTW mod" for VS!
Hmm, perhaps you could give examples of stuff that's confusing now? I try to make it so everything interactable has tooltips, for example the pit kiln still shows that you must add charcoal in the floating tooltip it has in vanilla. I doubt that there's ever going to be a wiki or forum of this mod, I'm not at all that ambitious, so a handbook guide is a possibility, but I'd just reference the changelog on this page.
The crude barrel and bowl aren't referenced anywhere, so you have to just kind of hope you see the crude versions in the handbook while searching amid the massive amount of spam the vanilla handbook is full of (searching for "crude" returns a ton of essentially identical items, for example.)
I figured that it was charcoal in the images, but having a direct text answer would be preferable simply because it can be hard to see the tooltips at times. At least for me, it seems like they like to fade into or disappear when you're not looking at the absolute, perfect angle.
I'm assuming the mod will eventually make major changes to other metals and processes compared to vanilla. Making steel is quite a process in BTW, for example, whereas it's relatively simple in VS.
>I'm assuming the mod will eventually make major changes to other metals and processes compared to vanilla
It won't.
Anyway, I'll add to the TODO list to finally figure out the Crude Barrel thing and add a footnote for the Crude Bowl, but if there's nothing else outright wrong other than something the mod railroads you into anyway - if you try to avoid using charcoal and look for coal you'll find that you can't get any so early in the game and must go back to using charcoal -, then that sounds decent.
I'm surprised you don't have metallurgy changes in mind. Admittedly vanilla VS is a lot farther ahead than vanilla MC is but it's still fairly simplistic. I guess we don't have a Nether or End to manage, though...
Only thing I can think of is what the recommendation for overhead roofing/cover is, since thatch roofing is removed (which also makes tule completely useless except for fuel I guess) and both soil and stone blocks collapse. You did mention something about using resin to make "sticky" blocks though right? So far, walling off a section of cave with cobblestone seems to be best. Well, until you have a random bear literally drop in on you, anyway...
Will there be any plans for adding back ways to get packed dirt and stone paths? They're definitely OP in vanilla VS but if got to the point of trying to route back to spawn, it'd be quite nice to have that 30% extra speed.
>metallurgy
Simplistic is more than fine. BTW and therefore BTB introduces complexity through competing systems, in and of themselves each of which are simple. For example, the crucible only has space to make little more than one ingot's worth of metal at a time; this is turn makes it an involved activity, and turn something like filling an anvil mold a question of time management. It also forces the player to make a judgment call whether they cook food before or after, because wasting the high temp fuel is a bad idea - or the player had to prepare by getting food that nneds no cooking, but then risk lowered nutrition levels for a while. Or they have to maintain two firepits, which is a base building challenge more than anything. A lot of interlayered systems are in work here to challenge the player, even though none of them are especially complex by design.
>roofing
You can use wood, though then you have to be careful about your firepit placement. Once you get the pickaxe you can get rock blocks to make a roof with. Bunkering into a cave is very reasonable until you can build a proper base, though then again you can also have a base with no roof (I usually do), you can stack up some blocks to build on and/or make a moat.
>paths
No. Getting back to your base will be challenging already by requiring you to make the compass. That takes more time than the run back home, so shaving off 30% there is a negligible thing.
Yeah, roofless bases work but rain is a serious issue with those. I think it's possible to put a layer of sticks above the firepit and then put a soil block on top of the layer of sticks, though. Assuming you can't find a usable cave entrance to wall off instead. Tested layers of sticks in creative and was never able to get them to catch on fire. Overall a pretty strange item.
Found out the other day that bears can apparently climb over 3-block high walls so I guess 4 blocks is the minimum for a safe roofless base? It seems like drifters seek to dig out the highest soil block they can access, rather than the lowest. Not sure if that's intentional or not. I haven't tried to test their behavior, but I did have a few spawn nearby on one run where I had a 3-block high wall and the only blocks that they broke were the top blocks.
Since reed chests are removed and storage vessels are only for food items, what is the intended storage method for stacks of rocks, clay, dirt piles, flints, and other items that don't have ground storage options? Can I just dig a hole and dump 80 rocks into it and they'll stay there? I've never actually tested VS for ground item retainment.
Oh, I wasn't aware that a layer of sticks wouldn't have block instability, so that will be patched next update. It's not recommended to have a completely roofless base indefinitely, again as soon as you get a pickaxe you can put a rock block there, or you can bunker into ruins or a cave. Drifters should try to break through any soil block if they sense the player, but I'll check on that too.
As for storage, being a hoarder early on is a bad idea. You can store some stuff on the ground, but gathering materials should be done as needed, making time management / day planning an important part of the game. If you really want to play safe by hauling supplies around, then you can get hunter backpacks in a few days.
The problem is that you can't just toss stuff on the ground or the game will pick it up, and many items come in amounts that aren't easily divisible. You could switch to only auto pickup when sneaking, but then that's annoying for normal play... Pico Trash Slot seems to work fine, though, so I guess that's a workaround.
Can you explain exactly how the proper firepits are meant to work? A partly sheltered pit on a calm night constantly goes out, and a pit that registers as sheltered on a calm night goes out almost instantly. Does it want to have nothing overhead and something protecting it from all other sides?
I meant proper vanilla ground storage. Whan you can't place down and risk losing shouldn't be picked up unless needed.
>firepits
An exposed firepit has a high chance to go out between fuel item. A partly sheltered has a lower chance, but it can still happen. Sheltered and above don't go out unless rained on, and I have never experienced them going out on their own, but I'll add it to the list to check the code there. (As the sheltering level goes up it also boosts fuel efficienty.)
Would love to see some of these changes and additions as standalone mods. I love the better entity ai but not a big fan of most of the other tweaks
thanks power plant man
any chance that you will have the worldgen as a standalone? Would love to explore mc styled caves / ruins
Cave gen is now finetuned for the BTW-style strata system, but it's possible that I could make a separate, modularized version of it in the future. Depends on how well the mod does, honestly.
that's fair
so its begin
o7